Gregulator
New Member
I just wanted this to be out there for others to find, I had a very hard time finding anything. 1997 Expedition 4x4 EB tow package 5.4 Air Suspension 165,000 miles currently.
1. Middle of winter, poor heating, kids are cold. According to you folks, common heater core plugging.
2. Flushed heater cores, thoroughly, they were ugly. My give a dang on low, I used muratic acid with a quick water flush, until clean flow only to heater cores. Didn't want to repeat this so...
3. Flushed 25 years old ugly coolant and whole system middle of winter. Block drain flush.
2. Started to overheat, stuck thermostat likely caused by stirring up all of that junk?
3. Bought NAPA recommended thermostat (NAPA branded, but motorad 195F, Murray at Oreilly's all same), and just as preventatives...water pump, and fan clutch, idler bearings while there.
4. Took 7 hour drive to mountains in Feb. everything was fine on my live data watching temps. So I thought 210-215 live data coolant temp consistent. (later realizing that is @20* too hot)
5. Fast forward 5 months. Weather gets hot 95+, temp gauge spikes to overheat, pull over comes back down, get to where I was going, come back at night it's cooler out no problems on dash.
6. Next day, using app for live data again, watch temps, it's really hot, 260+ heads, 240+ coolant temp, but rarely enough to trigger temp gauge jump. 220 at idle, only getting real hot revved or under load.
7. Figure radiator and hoses are cheap, mine are old and probably ugly inside and I like the SUV a lot, might as well replace.
8. Install parts, still getting hot, frustrated, as now there are only two sensors left on the entire cooling system. Starting to worry about head gasket, also in my mind, new bad part, lose/lose.
9. Buy the two sensors, ECT/CHT and another thermostat from NAPA. Test new and previous thermostat in boiling water and they both open fine. Chase wiring, find nothing.
10. Scour the internet for all possible problems other than head gaskets, I don't want to pay for the kit to test it. Somebody out there has had to have the same problem and posted.
11. One or two rando's claim it needs Motorcraft thermostat, I refused to believe it, there are millions of tritons, and most people are surely buying store brands/aftermarket, it's just a thermostat!
12. Last ditch effort before testing for head gasket, I order Motorcraft thermostat from Oreilly's, as NAPA doesn't offer it.
13. Temps are perfect now, 188-190, still hot outside, I can tell by watching ECT temps and feeling upper hose, it's flowing better and earlier. Motorcraft and Motorad are physically and obviously different design.
14. Take 2nd motorad thermostat and ECT sensor that didn't work back to NAPA, nicely explain my frustration and shock that all of this trouble seems to be Motorad thermostats are maybe TOO universal.
15. NAPA guy is having none of it, blames me for doing something wrong, is visibly upset and explains they sell a lot of those thermostats and there is absolutely no way it could be a design problem.
16. All that I can tell him and you is that in my case, two NAPA thermostats that test good in boiling test could not handle hot weather in my 5.4l, and when replaced with Motorcraft works perfectly. That's not a guess, that's a fact.
Sorry for the long story, but I read through just about every 5.4l overheat forum I could find and I am still shocked that this is possible and/or not very talked about.
My conspiracy theory brain thinks that maybe this isn't an accident. If I am corporate, and I know a 10$ thermostat can cause intermittent overheat, I will sell more radiators/hoses/pumps/sensors/coolant. It's an ugly fact. Wish my NAPA guy didn't get angry, as they have been great previously, he couldn't see it from my side I guess. I am out countless hours trying to solve this over a 10$ part that no question in my mind isn't right. Could it be that most people only use dumby gauge for temp problems? It's maybe not a coincidence that the order in which Amazon list these parts for my vehicle is #1 Motocraft 190*, #2 Motorad 170, #3 Motorad 180.... while NAPA shows correct part to be Motorad #195, and why are there so many lower temp alternatives at every store? There should only be one correct temp/thermostat for a vehicle!
Hope this helps, long story short, I have never been a "buy OEM" guy, but maybe the 6 extra dollars on a Motorcraft thermostat is money well spent. Or drill holes in your Motorad like some do, or use a lower temp like it seems others do. I am not sure if I want to go back to NAPA, really disappointed in being treated like an idiot. The angry side of me thinks the manufacturer/retailer should be sued for claiming OE or better when obviously NOT OE temp, OE size, OE shape, or OE performance. Ford didn't use the same thermostat in a 1992 F700, and a 2010 F150, but shockingly these are motorad's compatible vehicles. I think it has less to do with opening at temps, and more to do with bypass valve flow. I think it's over recirculating hot coolant while thermostat is open.
1. Middle of winter, poor heating, kids are cold. According to you folks, common heater core plugging.
2. Flushed heater cores, thoroughly, they were ugly. My give a dang on low, I used muratic acid with a quick water flush, until clean flow only to heater cores. Didn't want to repeat this so...
3. Flushed 25 years old ugly coolant and whole system middle of winter. Block drain flush.
2. Started to overheat, stuck thermostat likely caused by stirring up all of that junk?
3. Bought NAPA recommended thermostat (NAPA branded, but motorad 195F, Murray at Oreilly's all same), and just as preventatives...water pump, and fan clutch, idler bearings while there.
4. Took 7 hour drive to mountains in Feb. everything was fine on my live data watching temps. So I thought 210-215 live data coolant temp consistent. (later realizing that is @20* too hot)
5. Fast forward 5 months. Weather gets hot 95+, temp gauge spikes to overheat, pull over comes back down, get to where I was going, come back at night it's cooler out no problems on dash.
6. Next day, using app for live data again, watch temps, it's really hot, 260+ heads, 240+ coolant temp, but rarely enough to trigger temp gauge jump. 220 at idle, only getting real hot revved or under load.
7. Figure radiator and hoses are cheap, mine are old and probably ugly inside and I like the SUV a lot, might as well replace.
8. Install parts, still getting hot, frustrated, as now there are only two sensors left on the entire cooling system. Starting to worry about head gasket, also in my mind, new bad part, lose/lose.
9. Buy the two sensors, ECT/CHT and another thermostat from NAPA. Test new and previous thermostat in boiling water and they both open fine. Chase wiring, find nothing.
10. Scour the internet for all possible problems other than head gaskets, I don't want to pay for the kit to test it. Somebody out there has had to have the same problem and posted.
11. One or two rando's claim it needs Motorcraft thermostat, I refused to believe it, there are millions of tritons, and most people are surely buying store brands/aftermarket, it's just a thermostat!
12. Last ditch effort before testing for head gasket, I order Motorcraft thermostat from Oreilly's, as NAPA doesn't offer it.
13. Temps are perfect now, 188-190, still hot outside, I can tell by watching ECT temps and feeling upper hose, it's flowing better and earlier. Motorcraft and Motorad are physically and obviously different design.
14. Take 2nd motorad thermostat and ECT sensor that didn't work back to NAPA, nicely explain my frustration and shock that all of this trouble seems to be Motorad thermostats are maybe TOO universal.
15. NAPA guy is having none of it, blames me for doing something wrong, is visibly upset and explains they sell a lot of those thermostats and there is absolutely no way it could be a design problem.
16. All that I can tell him and you is that in my case, two NAPA thermostats that test good in boiling test could not handle hot weather in my 5.4l, and when replaced with Motorcraft works perfectly. That's not a guess, that's a fact.
Sorry for the long story, but I read through just about every 5.4l overheat forum I could find and I am still shocked that this is possible and/or not very talked about.
My conspiracy theory brain thinks that maybe this isn't an accident. If I am corporate, and I know a 10$ thermostat can cause intermittent overheat, I will sell more radiators/hoses/pumps/sensors/coolant. It's an ugly fact. Wish my NAPA guy didn't get angry, as they have been great previously, he couldn't see it from my side I guess. I am out countless hours trying to solve this over a 10$ part that no question in my mind isn't right. Could it be that most people only use dumby gauge for temp problems? It's maybe not a coincidence that the order in which Amazon list these parts for my vehicle is #1 Motocraft 190*, #2 Motorad 170, #3 Motorad 180.... while NAPA shows correct part to be Motorad #195, and why are there so many lower temp alternatives at every store? There should only be one correct temp/thermostat for a vehicle!
Hope this helps, long story short, I have never been a "buy OEM" guy, but maybe the 6 extra dollars on a Motorcraft thermostat is money well spent. Or drill holes in your Motorad like some do, or use a lower temp like it seems others do. I am not sure if I want to go back to NAPA, really disappointed in being treated like an idiot. The angry side of me thinks the manufacturer/retailer should be sued for claiming OE or better when obviously NOT OE temp, OE size, OE shape, or OE performance. Ford didn't use the same thermostat in a 1992 F700, and a 2010 F150, but shockingly these are motorad's compatible vehicles. I think it has less to do with opening at temps, and more to do with bypass valve flow. I think it's over recirculating hot coolant while thermostat is open.
