5280tunage
Full Access Members
Hi All - I know we often have folks on here that ask for insight into "what's out there besides the expy", and I just wanted to share some recent experience I had. I recently spent about a week in a 2023 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Series II, and wanted to share.
First, I want to declare that I've always been a very heavy Jeep guy, I've had my issues throughout the years but anytime I put one to the test it did what I asked it to do and more.
As for the Grand Wagoneer. Yes, it was a rental, so that certainly says a bit about its condition, but it was a Series II, equipped with the 3.0L Twin Turbo, Select Trac 2, Air Suspension, etc. It did not have the door-to-door display, I believe that's only a Series 3 feature, but it did have the McIntosh equipped HiFi. I know this isn't a totally fair comparison as there is roughly a $15K difference at MSRP so to me it would be better to compare this to a Navigator, but I don't have one so I can't compare those two, but even then, when I test drove a Navi, this was still better overall.
Exterior -
I actually prefer the looks of the Expy, the GW looks a bit like they tried to take the older Liberty and stretch it out in every direction. I did like the lighting effects everywhere on the exterior, and I definitely liked the visibility. I found the mirrors with the wide view corners, the windows, the rear glass, the visibility of the platform was better. The exhaust also had a much better note to me. However, one thing I didn't like, was the way the doors sounded when they closed. It didn't sound sturdy. This could have been due to the fact it was a rental, and maybe was beat up.
Interior -
This was absolutely an area this thing shines. Most things were intelligently placed, everything felt well made. The headliner was gorgeous, I realize that has no real benefit, but it looked like it's price. The leather was very comfortable, the seats were way better than mine, in fact one of my favorite things I noticed was the bolsters, it felt more like I was sitting in quality that didn't allow me to slide side to side in turns. The gauge cluster was very clean, easy to use, it did have a few things missing that I would have liked, like a boost gauge for example. I also couldn't figure out how to change the tire pressure from bar to PSI, lol. The fact that this actually had a HUD, unlike the Expy that said on it's window sticker it had a HUD, but it's really just red lights. This is certainly not necessary and like so much of this, it's just something to go wrong, but I loved the power headrests.
I also loved the interfaces. The fact that this thing had so many screens, but so many functions still had physical buttons and knobs. So many USB ports of different types (USBA, USBC) etc. I wish the wireless charging pad wasn't behind one of the beautiful screens, but I did like that all of the functions on that screen were available on other screens while the cubby was open. I found the Infotainment to be very easy and logical to use, but I did find several times where it would lag behind, like switching from audio to nav, etc.
The audio was really good. It still suffered from nowhere near enough low frequency capability, the sub was essentially non-existent to me. But the mids, highs, etc were super clean, clear and responsive. I loved the analog looking McIntosh gauges, it was nice. I found it very easy to use, and super clean sounding.
This unit wasn't an L, it was a standard length, but I found it to feel a little roomier. part of that is that this one had captain chairs vs. the 2nd row bench, but I did find there was a little more space behind the 3rd row with the seats up than mine. We actually had to test things space out at one point by putting 9 people in it for a little while. One thing I didn't like was the location of the tailgate button, and the fact that this only has the liftgate, and not a lift glass. I use that a lot in my vehicles.
I did notice that Jeep put hooks in for cargo space covers, I'm assuming it's an accessory you have to buy, but that was nice to see. I used to love having retractable cargo covers.
Mechanical -
First, luckily FCA didn't destroy the Jeep turning radius. It still had a great turning radius, actually though so does my Expy, it was one of the stats I reviewed before buying this vs. a GM. I definitely think this thing needs 9 or 10 gears. Having said that, the 8spd was very smooth, both during acceleration, deceleration, heavy braking, etc. One thing I absolutely loved was the hold feature, but unfortunately, I already found myself trying that in my Expy, almost running into the back of someone at a stop light. I did find the Hurricane motor to be very subdued. I don't know if maybe this thing could benefit from some good tuning or what, but in the Expy, you can clearly feel the powerband and feel when the turbines spool up. In this, it was far less noticeable. In the Auto powertrain mode, I found it to be a bit slow and labored, in the Sport mode it was better and actually the transmission still felt very smooth, but it still didn't feel like the Expy. It did do great from say 20-50, 40-70, etc, but from a standing stop it felt pretty weak. This thing does way 7500+ lbs, so that can't help.
As said previously, the exhaust had great notes, with zero cabin drone. I did go into the stereo and make sure there wasn't any active noise cancelling on.
The ride was exceptional, it didn't suffer from the terrible body roll, it absorbed crack, potholes, rough surfaces very well. This has 100% to do with the air suspension. That also probably helped with the road noise a lot. I loved the Eco ride height on the highways and actually found the gas mileage to be pretty decent, pretty on par with my Expy, but that makes sense, my Expy is tuned, and this thing weighs 1k lbs more. Not the CA gas prices though! Geez-us. This suspension is far superior to the Expy, I don't think I would even need to swap sway bars. This also had 22" wheels so I can't say tires were a difference in the sound levels and comfort.
Overall -
I really enjoyed driving this thing. It was quiet, gorgeous, well layed out. It felt like it price tag, which is one of my gripes with the Expy. Things like the pillar covers with matching fabric to the headliner, clean lines, interior lighting, exterior lighting and logo projectors, larger but slimmer running boards, the automatic turning corner lamps, the seats were great. I did find a few things that were clumsy like the window switch operation for the rears only working when the doors were locked (maybe something was wrong here). I have no idea what the long-term reliability will be like ont his platform and this motor. I did find the engine bay/motor to look far less complex than the EB. Granted it's mechanically not less complex, but the engine bay looked cleaner. If I could afford this thing, it probably would be my next vehicle, and that's not just because I have always liked my Jeep's, it's because it feels like its price tag. That's one of my biggest gripes on the Expy, as well as reliability and dealer/customer service experiences.
Again, these are just my opinions and experiences. I'm sure there are others that will say I'm nuts, and that's cool too. Just wanted to share. Feel free to ask questions if you want and I'll do my best to answer.
First, I want to declare that I've always been a very heavy Jeep guy, I've had my issues throughout the years but anytime I put one to the test it did what I asked it to do and more.
As for the Grand Wagoneer. Yes, it was a rental, so that certainly says a bit about its condition, but it was a Series II, equipped with the 3.0L Twin Turbo, Select Trac 2, Air Suspension, etc. It did not have the door-to-door display, I believe that's only a Series 3 feature, but it did have the McIntosh equipped HiFi. I know this isn't a totally fair comparison as there is roughly a $15K difference at MSRP so to me it would be better to compare this to a Navigator, but I don't have one so I can't compare those two, but even then, when I test drove a Navi, this was still better overall.
Exterior -
I actually prefer the looks of the Expy, the GW looks a bit like they tried to take the older Liberty and stretch it out in every direction. I did like the lighting effects everywhere on the exterior, and I definitely liked the visibility. I found the mirrors with the wide view corners, the windows, the rear glass, the visibility of the platform was better. The exhaust also had a much better note to me. However, one thing I didn't like, was the way the doors sounded when they closed. It didn't sound sturdy. This could have been due to the fact it was a rental, and maybe was beat up.
Interior -
This was absolutely an area this thing shines. Most things were intelligently placed, everything felt well made. The headliner was gorgeous, I realize that has no real benefit, but it looked like it's price. The leather was very comfortable, the seats were way better than mine, in fact one of my favorite things I noticed was the bolsters, it felt more like I was sitting in quality that didn't allow me to slide side to side in turns. The gauge cluster was very clean, easy to use, it did have a few things missing that I would have liked, like a boost gauge for example. I also couldn't figure out how to change the tire pressure from bar to PSI, lol. The fact that this actually had a HUD, unlike the Expy that said on it's window sticker it had a HUD, but it's really just red lights. This is certainly not necessary and like so much of this, it's just something to go wrong, but I loved the power headrests.
I also loved the interfaces. The fact that this thing had so many screens, but so many functions still had physical buttons and knobs. So many USB ports of different types (USBA, USBC) etc. I wish the wireless charging pad wasn't behind one of the beautiful screens, but I did like that all of the functions on that screen were available on other screens while the cubby was open. I found the Infotainment to be very easy and logical to use, but I did find several times where it would lag behind, like switching from audio to nav, etc.
The audio was really good. It still suffered from nowhere near enough low frequency capability, the sub was essentially non-existent to me. But the mids, highs, etc were super clean, clear and responsive. I loved the analog looking McIntosh gauges, it was nice. I found it very easy to use, and super clean sounding.
This unit wasn't an L, it was a standard length, but I found it to feel a little roomier. part of that is that this one had captain chairs vs. the 2nd row bench, but I did find there was a little more space behind the 3rd row with the seats up than mine. We actually had to test things space out at one point by putting 9 people in it for a little while. One thing I didn't like was the location of the tailgate button, and the fact that this only has the liftgate, and not a lift glass. I use that a lot in my vehicles.
I did notice that Jeep put hooks in for cargo space covers, I'm assuming it's an accessory you have to buy, but that was nice to see. I used to love having retractable cargo covers.
Mechanical -
First, luckily FCA didn't destroy the Jeep turning radius. It still had a great turning radius, actually though so does my Expy, it was one of the stats I reviewed before buying this vs. a GM. I definitely think this thing needs 9 or 10 gears. Having said that, the 8spd was very smooth, both during acceleration, deceleration, heavy braking, etc. One thing I absolutely loved was the hold feature, but unfortunately, I already found myself trying that in my Expy, almost running into the back of someone at a stop light. I did find the Hurricane motor to be very subdued. I don't know if maybe this thing could benefit from some good tuning or what, but in the Expy, you can clearly feel the powerband and feel when the turbines spool up. In this, it was far less noticeable. In the Auto powertrain mode, I found it to be a bit slow and labored, in the Sport mode it was better and actually the transmission still felt very smooth, but it still didn't feel like the Expy. It did do great from say 20-50, 40-70, etc, but from a standing stop it felt pretty weak. This thing does way 7500+ lbs, so that can't help.
As said previously, the exhaust had great notes, with zero cabin drone. I did go into the stereo and make sure there wasn't any active noise cancelling on.
The ride was exceptional, it didn't suffer from the terrible body roll, it absorbed crack, potholes, rough surfaces very well. This has 100% to do with the air suspension. That also probably helped with the road noise a lot. I loved the Eco ride height on the highways and actually found the gas mileage to be pretty decent, pretty on par with my Expy, but that makes sense, my Expy is tuned, and this thing weighs 1k lbs more. Not the CA gas prices though! Geez-us. This suspension is far superior to the Expy, I don't think I would even need to swap sway bars. This also had 22" wheels so I can't say tires were a difference in the sound levels and comfort.
Overall -
I really enjoyed driving this thing. It was quiet, gorgeous, well layed out. It felt like it price tag, which is one of my gripes with the Expy. Things like the pillar covers with matching fabric to the headliner, clean lines, interior lighting, exterior lighting and logo projectors, larger but slimmer running boards, the automatic turning corner lamps, the seats were great. I did find a few things that were clumsy like the window switch operation for the rears only working when the doors were locked (maybe something was wrong here). I have no idea what the long-term reliability will be like ont his platform and this motor. I did find the engine bay/motor to look far less complex than the EB. Granted it's mechanically not less complex, but the engine bay looked cleaner. If I could afford this thing, it probably would be my next vehicle, and that's not just because I have always liked my Jeep's, it's because it feels like its price tag. That's one of my biggest gripes on the Expy, as well as reliability and dealer/customer service experiences.
Again, these are just my opinions and experiences. I'm sure there are others that will say I'm nuts, and that's cool too. Just wanted to share. Feel free to ask questions if you want and I'll do my best to answer.
